The lack of a draft definately buffers the current war from alot of criticsm and significantly differentiates it from Vietnam. Short of a major global conflict, a draft is essentially political death after Vietnam.

And arguments against wars are certainly pretty consistent. But as you said Vietnam changed everything.

A question (one to which I don’t know the answer): Was Iraq I (Persian Gulf Crisis during George H.W. Bush) unpopular? It is not a valid comparison, I know, because it was short, few American lives were lost and it was a stunning success, rhetorically, for America. But I am just curious.

But not everyone laughs at free love and hippies — That 70’s Show aside. And while That 70s Show pokes fun at the 70s, it does so with love and reverence and so to say the 60s and 70s are “basically a joke” seems an oversimplification. Do I want the U.S. to return to the culture of the 60s and 70s? No. AIDS is enough of a reason. Kent State, too. Among many others. Similarly, while the “quiet simple life” of the 50s might appeal to many, I would hope no one would want to return to a time without the civil rights movement (despite Newt Gingrich’s assertion during the ‘94 Contract With America that that was exactly what he wanted to do).

The amount of time it has taken America to turn against the Iraq War is tricky. Especially because of the new media. You said, “Between the internet, significantly larger penetration of television, and general increases in communication things tend to happen faster now than they did then.” But it would seem that would go both ways. Because while mainstream media (CNN and other TV News) may present the anti-war movement (a belief I don’t agree with but that many argue), talk radio (Glen Beck, Rush Limbaugh, etc..) forcefully argue that the war is good and going well. And then the blogs and internet are pretty even plus, as Freytag noted, are insular — people only read what they agree with. So the increases in communication, etc should create a standstill regarding the propaganda/news/blog/whatever one wants to call 21 century media.

I will also add another difference between Iraq and Vietnam that likely influences the lack of concrete, physical unrest: The Draft. Iraq is fought by a voluntary army whereas the Draft … well that made a lot of people very upset about Vietnam, especially young people who couldn’t vote until 1972 but could still be drafted.

LSD and sex may limit the appeal — but I’m not sure drugs and sex are really that harder to score. Woodstock ‘99 anyone?

The speed of information impacts the speed of our reactions to that information. Thus comparing the time it took polls to react in the 60’s and 70’s versus today can be very tricky.

Most of the reasons you listed for being against the war are all very common, and aren’t any different than the reasons many people were against WWII (and WWI, and the Korean War). We don’t belong over there, the war is unnecessary or unjust (from the Catholic perspective there have been exactly zero just wars in US history), we don’t agree with the reasons stated for going to war.

We laugh at “free love” and “hippies” which have both become caricatures of themselves. The entire counter-culture concept is essentially a punch line and even got turned into a long running TV show (That 70’s Show). The drug culture is pretty much a running punch line as well.

It’s possible the reason people protest less is that it isn’t as easy to score LSD at protests now as it was in the 60’s and 70’s. Plus the distinct lack of easy sex coming from protests may have decreased its appeal.

One could debate if 69% is high, I guess. But, to me, it seems high. I’m not sure that :living in a shadow” is terribly meaningfull, either. Certainly, I’m not making the case that Iraq is exactly the same thing as Vietnam. However, in order to make a comparison one has to compare to something. Vietnam is the best bet since it is the other unpopular war. That things move faster now than then is likely true, but I’m not sure how meaningful that is, either.

Still, Iraq is unpopular for a lot of reason, not just because it seems we are losing. The same was true of Vietnam. Many people (I won’t say a majority because I don’t know that that is true) are upset because they see this as an unjust war, an unnecessary war, a war of agression. Still others don’t understand why we went to war in the first place. Still others understand the reasons put forward for invading Iraq but see those as unacceptable reasons. I think a lot of people are sick of American soldiers fighting halfway across the world for no apparent reason (not the argument I’m putting forth since I don’t subscribe to American isolationism). And on and on and on. The same is true of Vietnam, as well. If everything turns around in Iraq, yes the polls will change. How many people will still be opposed to the war? I don’t know. Will there be enough opposition to affect policy? I don’t know. But to say it is unpopular just because of the perception we are losing, I think, is wrong.

What things would we laugh at specifically? I can think of some. I laugh at disco. But somehow I think that isn’t what we’re talking about.

I think you missed my point about affluence and blogs. In order to blog you need an internet connection that is easily available. In order for people to read blogs they need an internet connection. If blogging, as Chris suggested, is the way activists protest, then I don’t think affluence can really be said to be an issue because of the costs necessary to both blog and participate in blogging (as both commentors and bloggers). I’m certainly willing to take your bet, I doubt lack of economic freedom has anything to do with why people don’t protest.

Is 69% high? I really have no idea. Comparing the time it took for Vietnam to become unpopular and the time it took for the Iraq war to become unpopular is pretty meaningless. Between the internet, significantly larger penetration of television, and general increases in communication things tend to happen faster now than they did then. Combine that with the fact that Vietnam did not have to live in the shadow of itself or the Watergate Scandal and I don’t really think the comparison is terribly accurate or meaningfull.

But my main point is that, while 69% is pretty high it doesn’t strike me as nearly as high as those opposed to the war make it seem. Congressional approval rates are much worse than the approval rates of the war in Iraq. Extremely unpopular? Maybe, but I’m not really convinced. Iraq is unpopular because the perception is we aren’t winning (largely the reason Vietnam was unpopluar as well). If that changes, so will the wars popularity and so will the fickle politicians pushes for shifts in policy.

It isn’t just that we parody that time period, that happens for most time periods, it’s that the time period itself has become little more than a stereotype. The advances are also joke worthy, but thats a different kind of joke were we look back at things that were allowed to happen and laugh at what would happen if someone tried that same thing today. Advances in general are obviously good things (hence the term advance). that would be true of the 60’s, 70’s, 80’s, 90’s and any other decade.

Still, I would love to see some comparisons between college students during the Vietnam War and college students during the Iraq War. How many pay/paid their own way vs. how many do/did not. How many have/had school paid for by working/student loans vs. how many have/had it paid for by scholarships and parents. Something like that might help illuminate whether or not students then had more economic freedom to protest as opposed to having to work three jobs to afford tuition. Of course, a flat money comparison will prove little since it won’t take into account inflation, number of jobs, school workload, etc… Ultimately, it will be a difficult comparison to effectively and accurately make.

But as for the war, 69% disapproval ratings are pretty high. The midterm elections in 2006 as a referendum on Iraq also seems to support the opinion that Iraq is unpopular. The numbers of high ranking Republicans calling for a shift in policy in Iraq shows serious pressure based, it would seem, on an unpopular war. Comparing it to the protests/opinions of Vietnam, it took five years before polls showed a majority of Americans disapproving of the handling of Vietnam, and that included the influence of the draft (which if implemented today would likely take the 69% disapproval ratings and send them skyrocketing). Iraq took two years before the majority of Americans disapproved of the war and that majority has yet to change.

Define joke? Do you mean that the advances made are joke worthy or that the actions taken are joke worthy? Or that we now parody that time period? If the last, it is important to remember that everything ends up that way — everything ultimately becomes a parody of itself. Everything consumes itself. Look at 90’s grunge music. That was no joke when it began. But it quickly became nothing but a parody of itself — a joke where anyone who wanted to buy a flannel and use the word “sad” in a song got a record deal. That is the nature of all movements (political, cultural, social, etc…).

And if the actual work done in the 60s and 70s are a joke, that is a true shame.

I’d be very interested in seeing data that shows that young people are actually less afluent than they were in the 60’s and 70’s. I highly doubt that is actually the case, in fact I’d guess they are more alfuent today by a fairly wide margin. Certainly if the problem is that we’ve taken our protesting to blogs and the internet then affluence isn’t an issue, since in order to be able to do so we need to be able to afford the internet (which isn’t any more necessary to survive than cable TV).

It could be a generaly distrust of all things political, but that’s probably my own person bias shining through.

As for the IPOD thing, well IPODS are fun and the payoff is both long and short term. Protests are generally boring and even if there is a pay off it happens a very long way down the road. Again, if the would be protestors can afford IPODs they probably aren’t suffering economically.

It could also be that the war isn’t nearly as unpopular as people think.

It’s also worth noting that the 60’s and 70’s are basically a joke at this point. Or at least the stereotypes of those decades are.

Though, if the net is the place to be, I hope the young are there for more than porn and myspace hookups.

God, I sound old now…..